Sydney Chefs

Neil Perry

In 1991 restaurant critic Stephen Downes thought Rockpool "Australia's best seafood table" and gave it 16 out of 20 as did Leo Schofield in the Sydney Morning Herald Good Food Guide while the ellubiant Terry Durack, with typical enthusiasm, rhapsodised that Rockpool should be the "first stop in Sydney -- it just seems to be getting better and better"

"It's really important that people start to realise that every fish that comes out of the sea -- it isn't the same -- in fact its very interesting my second chef who was cooking for you today had a hell of a time getting fresh fish today and so the menu is shorter than usual -- the worst time in Australia for fish is summer time when everyone thinks of eating fish; there are lots of fish which just aren't available, winter is much the best time but people don't realise that.

"Rockpool has been open two years next month and George (then the second chef) has been with me at Perry's and at Blue Water Grill, he also worked with Phillip [Searle] at Oasis for a little while; also Lorraine, my pastry chef has been with me since 1985; we have 16 in the kitchen and we are doing 1000 to 1200 a week and so it's really a restaurant.

"That's a business. There are so many small places that seat 40 to 50 and are open five nights a week and the critics jump up and down and say how wonderful they are but it doesn't really add up to a real business. In a place like this it's got to be professional, Monday lunch has got to be as good as Saturday night; it takes so many people to do it, the amount of staff and the quality of the housekeeping required; I think that's what running a restaurant is about without taking away from any one who runs a small restaurant -- it's not that it's easier but there's certainly a lot less stress involved; up to nine, from seven to nine in kitchen at one time -- we have five apprentices.

"I started cooking at Barranjoey House in 1983, no I started before that; with Michael at Barranjoey and then in partnership with him at Perry's. we started at Barranjoey with Michael and Judy then decided to expand into the city with Perry's which didn't work as a partnership and then from there I opened Blue Water Grill -- that started in Sydney a lot of the food which they talk about as being different in Sydney -- we just cooked a lot of fresh seafood and grilled a lot of food, it threw up a lot of things which was ultimately very simple but what went into was very fresh; there were four to five of us in the kitchen and that increased to nine to ten and we would do about two to two and a half thousand people a week. The food was much simpler than here there are a lot of ingredients here; a lot of the food at Blue Water was one -- stop, you grill it throw it up and throw a garnish onto it".

"Sydney's now full of restaurants like that and I take full responsibility for what we did at the Blue Water Grill -- it was fun and it was cheap; we were doing really cheap food then but now we are the only round-eye (non-Asian) restaurant using the prime quality seafood and that is very expensive. We don't buy at the wholesale market because most of it revolves round quantity and turnover not quality -- so we deal with the Flying Squid (as do most of the top restaurants) which is really high quality expensive stuff providing the best seafood in this country. The market system won't change until the Market insists that the fishermen take back the rubbish but that won't happen.

"Not many of the restaurants serve freshly shucked oysters, so many serve them washed and opened three days ago.

"My cousin helps us by doing the financials which is a great help. I want to stay here and be successful for the next thirty years. I get questioned about that and asked what do I really want -- they say "you've had five restaurants over the past ten years" But there's a lot of difference between building up to what you want and actually getting what you want, there's not much in life after this; its a terrific investment for me with $1.8 million involved, it's owned by the government, we have a good lease and know that we are not going to be kicked out. Reviewers write restaurants up and describe them as " hallmark" -- they get described as "great" when they are just eating places and that's the way they should be thought of; there aren't many great restaurants in Sydney -- which are they -- well there's me!! and then ... pause ... what about Kables -- well its good and it's very French -- I really like Serge [Dansereau, I think he's great, he's a lovely man; our cooking styles are completely different -- a million miles apart. I wave his flag whenever I get the chance because of his concern for quality produce; he has actually helped the way people think about produce and what people can actually get because of his buying power which is enormous.

"Gay [Bilson] is up there and she is the matriarch of Sydney restaurants and that is great and -- what else -- I have always enjoyed Peter Doyle's food though I hate the restaurant I don't think that is a nice environment to sit in I much preferred when he was up at Reflections -- he is now so depressed and you can't cook when you're like that; it's not fair because Peter is a really good cook; but I might say that we do cook the food that people like to eat and though a lot of people who like classic food think it's rubbish -- people do keep coming back and that says it all".

"We are now two years down the track and last year we didn't get all the publicity, Paul Merroney's got all the running; but they just keep coming back because they like the food, we have a lot of regulars.

"People are still thinking that French -- style restaurants are the hall mark -- that's what quality is about because everyone still believes that French -- classic is the hallmark -- classic experience that is what a great restaurant is; people automatically talk about hallmark dining -- what is the best in Sydney or in Melbourne they tend still to think in terms of French restaurants -- say no one would say the best Thai restaurant -- the food may be fantastic but they wouldn't value it.

"One of the problems with Sydney restaurants that is just before the Bicentennial -- in 1988, a lot of people started getting involved in restaurants who should never have been -- there was a lot of money around and they would grab, say, a second year apprentice, give them $850, $900 or $1,000 and say -- now I want you to grill some tuna and put some eggplant on it and we'll open a restaurant and it will all be wonderful, so all these people were dispersed from your kitchens, you couldn't get anyone to stay with you for a few years, there were too many jobs around -- there was actually too much cash and the wages went crazy but now people are realising that it's a hard business and there have been no new restaurants open since us and since Merrony's -- that is with any sort of money spent on it and I don't think that will change probably for a couple of years -- everyone's pretty tight and that hopefully that will give us all the opportunity to consolidate and the kids in the kitchen will consolidate. You know you can't spend six months working for somebody and know everything that they've got to teach you and I would like staff to stay with me for longer -- I've got another kid who's been with me for two years and hopefully it will be four years; so that when they leave you feel confident that they go with a good skill base; that will be better for Sydney. Our apprentices go to TAFE which is not good at all -- I go around teaching the kids to look after fish so that for every second of its life it's at a premium and they go to Tech and use skin frozen sole, make consomme with tomato sauce and this to me is so depressing; I never went to Tech and don't regret it because it's not a proper training ground. I wish I was a lot younger and was able to work and train in Europe. I would still like to and would still, if I could get myself organised, go to Hong Kong and do some cooking courses; go to Thailand and go to Italy and to France and jump in and do some cooking courses."

"My parents had a lot of Chinese friends, and I ate Chinese food a lot from an early age and they taught me a lot about flavours. My father is a butcher and these people lived near by and became friendly with a group of refugee students who worked in Chinese restaurants; I don't have any Chinese cooks but do have Chinese kitchen hands -- they are the best workers. My father was also a crazy fisherman and he taught me to be fastidious about quality and freshness of seafood. But he does not believe in undercooking meats and tells me I am trying to kill people.

"I have been eating out in Chinese restaurants since I was six but have not yet been to Asia; I have organised a week in Hong Kong in March and two weeks in June in Thailand."

"Yes you have to live with that and if you are running a good restaurant you are looking at about 10% of the population who understand it; 5% who really appreciate it and the rest of them wander through; and either enjoy it or wonder what's going on. If anyone wants a plain piece of fish we do it for them".

Neil is still packing them in but more now in his new, cheaper, 'bistro' Wockpool than at Rockpool. He also runs the cafe at the Museum of Contempory Art and recently opened the very large Star Grill at Darling Harbour which, we are told, is not taking off as hoped.

A 1999 interview (and recipes) with Neil Perry